It’s terrible that well intending Liberals can’t see how Affirmative Care and Trans-medicalization is part of a global fascist uprising meant to end legitimate liberal causes like women’s rights, gay rights and even liberalism itself.
I recently made the sex realist case in the comment section of a left-of-center Substack account. Among other things, I said that liberals and progressives needed to stop demonizing and censoring sex realists.
It was no surprise that the five negative replies I received painted trans people as victims and sex realists as terrible people. The next time an opportunity I will quote this piece to show that trans activists and trans allies are not the angels they're said to be. (I also received five "likes.")
Here are the trans allies' comments.
Person 1
Nov 9
So many assumptions here that I disagree with. The far right will always choose a minority to demonize. It happens to be trans people at this moment because the majority of people now accept homosexuality. In the 1980s it was gay men. In 50 years it will be someone else. Transsexuals are not new. While European culture may have suppressed such tendencies, other cultures did not and even celebrated those with identities that mixed or crossed genders. Look at the mahu of Hawaii; families would celebrate if they had a mahu child and considered it a special blessing. In an ancient South Indian ritual around child birth, a young boy is dressed as a girl to confuse malevolent spirits and distract them from the pregnant woman and her quickening womb. I live in San Jose, CA. My teenage children taught me of this "no gender" concept and rejection of the gender binary and I kind of love it. It's fascinating to see them using language and dress to change their mental concept of the world. My ex went through gender reassignment surgery at the age of 48. My children have zero interest in doing so. At the end of the day being trans is about self expression. Shouldn't everyone have the right to be addressed the way they wish to be and to wear whatever clothes they choose? Many people do not get hormone treatment or surgery. For others, surgery gives them life and they would have committed suicide without the opportunity. They are such a tiny percent of the population. Why should we be afraid? Do we forbid nose jobs or breast enhancement for the purposes of vanity? What about botox treatment? People are literally poisoning themselves and that isn't frowned upon. The San Jose State University women's volleyball team has a trans woman. She didn't advertise that fact; someone outed her. Suddenly teams refused to play them and gave them victories they would not have gotten otherwise. She has given them a better "winning" percentage simply because other teams refuse to play them and not because she has given them a competitive advantage on the court. When young people are allowed to transition before puberty, trans women do not get the advantage of testosterone and are not inherently more muscular. Their mental health improves dramatically. I don't expect everyone to embrace the acceptance of trans people overnight. But how does it offend so strongly when we stand by them. No one is asking anyone else to change their gender. Asking that no one be abused seems like a low bar that shouldn't be objectionable to anyone. If society had been more accepting when we were children, my ex would have lived her authentic self and I would have had the opportunity to choose someone else.
Person 2
Nov 9
·edited Nov 9
The trans people are the first on the chopping block, but don't think for one minute that gays and lesbians aren't next. Trump may not care one way or another about gays, but never underestimate the christian nationalists that are in his orbit to attack us. They are just softening the ground. I'm sure they have a list of "deviants" they want to get rid of.
Person 3
Nov 9
What a shock, that your scapegoat for the election loss is the group of people who you already didn't like.
Person 4
Nov 9
·edited Nov 9
Like MaryAnn, I didn't entirely follow this, but the gist of it seemed to be it's trans people's activism that's the problem and that radical gender ideology is going to convince people they are trans just because they're tomboys or girly boys or whatever and lead to terrible consequences? Is that an accurate read? Are you friends with any trans or nonbinary people? Have you heard any of their stories? I don't know if what you're saying about some trans activists shutting down conversation about the complexities and need for caution in some situations is true or not, but even if it was true, there are always difficult people in any movement. The bigger picture is still that society is awful to people who are trans. Awful. And that this needs to change. They need rights and protections, and society needs to stop mocking them (Whether or not you agree with someone's person decision to transition). The friends I have who are trans have gut-wrenching stories of knowing this was who they were from a young age, praying and praying every day to wake up the gender they wanted to be, becoming suicidal, finally having the courage to much later in life to live as who they always knew they were, being rejected by their families and communities when they did so. Their workplaces as adults being targeted and threatened by transphobic people they didn't even know after they transitioned. Being publicly mocked in church services. It would have prevented much suffering if they'd felt safe to live that way earlier, but trans people are currently the minority group society feels most free to mock and insist aren't real. I have a friend whose child now identifies as trans. Again, no one "persuaded" him he was trans, it was something he talked about on his own. And when he shared this to friends, other kids came out to him - on their own - saying they were too scared to tell their parents anymore because their parents said kids can't feel that way, but they knew they were the same way. I emphasize again, this wasn't radical trans madness convincing these kids of anything. My friend has also talked about how much joy her kid has found now that he has affirming community who understands this is a normal queer experience. It's heartbreaking that it was so hard to find.
I know some people are still convinced gender dysphoria isn't actually something real and that maybe somehow we can change it with talk therapy or something. I don't know any trans people who believes this, so I honestly think we will one day see it the same way we've accepted that gay and lesbian orientations are real. Even if there was some truth to the argument that a trans experience could be cured (again, I'm not there just because I know no trans person who feels this way, and I trust them), it seems very clear to me that this is the bigger picture about the trans community - people who just want to be accepted and be who they've always known they are without society bullying them and driving them to suicide. When we go straight to "trans madness" as the "real" threat and insist once more that they really just need more therapy and their concerns aren't real, this really hurts them.
You also mentioned something about sex realists - again, I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that sex realists vs deniers is a common false framing of the issue. ContraPoints on Youtube (a trans woman) I believe had a helpful episode on this misframing in the context of her discussion of the JK Rowling controversy. Trans people know more than anyone that biological sex is real - if they didn't know sex was real, they wouldn't be seeking extensive medical treatment to align sex with their gender experience. I agree with you that the research is new and so it's all confusing and scary and we need to proceed with caution to never rush into anything when kids are involved. But I don't personally know any trans people who think we should be careless in that regard. Again, my sense is that those who've had the experience of a deep sense of gender/sex mismatch from a young age are those we should listen to the most about what would help them thrive and find acceptance.
Hope this makes sense - we likely won't agree, but I wanted to at least try to speak up for my trans friends and their experiences when it sounds like someone is saying their experience is madness. Peace.
Person 5
Nov 9
Ollie, I'm not sure I followed you, to be honest. My wish for you is that you would read a first-person account of a transgender person like "Getting to Ellie" by Ellen Krug. She is not a concept or philosophy, queer or otherwise. She is not a construct. She is a woman who transitioned in her 50's after a lifetime of knowing she was a woman. That takes courage and also an ability to put up with a lot of physical pain.
I think the notion that 'male intrusion' into women's spaces being a huge issue is much more of a construct than actual transgender people.
You strike me as a very good person. We best just agree to disagree, my sense.
Ollie Parks
Nov 9
·edited Nov 9
What people in their 50s do is their business. There was once a time - as recently as the late 20th century - when trans men were practically unknown and most trans people were like Ellie: men well past the first bloom of youth who saw themselves as women. That is worlds apart from today's trans madness.
Person 5, again.
Nov 9
It's not though. Ellie shouldn't have had to wait until her 50s to live as who she always knew she was. This kind of experience parallels those of my trans friends - who similarly didn't have the strength to come out until somewhat later in life but who suffered greatly because they knew they couldn't trust anyone with their experience because of how cruel society is to trans people. By "today's trans madness" I don't think you mean my friends, but that kind of language hurts them.
I've tried many, many times to have conversations with my fellow Canadians about how gender ideology is hurting women and children. The vast majority have no idea any of this is going on, and the majority of that group are also not interested in learning more. It's not 'nice' to engage in those conversations, don't you know. The few that are aware are intent on keeping their noses down until it blows over.
Which is why I have such immense respect for the women in this doc. And so many more, like Melanie Bennet and Meghan Murphy.
My husband and I consider a Canadian gay couple who live in Vancouver our best friends. We've known them for over 30 years. Both are therapists who are very senior in the profession. One or both have had trans clients. They're not woo, but neither are they conservatives.
We are both sex realists, I very much more so than my husband. I am certain that they would both disagree strongly with our views about gender ideology and its social consequences. It is even possible they would conclude that our moral compass is broken. If we ever engaged them in a thorough discussion of the subject, it could end or relationship.
Be that as it may, the next time I am in BC, I plan to wear my rainbow flag t-shirt that has a void where the bruise-like trans triangle and racial identity stripes would ordinarily be. They wouldn't deport me, would they? : )
There should be class action suits brought against the companies that make puberty blockers and hormones, and the corrupt medical standards organizations that legitimized gender medicine malpractice. Then go after gender surgery practitioners.
> "... the grassroots revolt against ‘gender identity’ ...."
Part of the problem is that there is some merit in the concept of "gender identity", even if many transactivists, and their useless/useful idiots, go off the deep end with it.
For example, Genspect and the author, Matt Osborne, may wish to take a gander at my several comments on Stella O'Malley's Substack on the topic:
Genspect: "females with ... CAH ... are typically raised as girls and continue in a female gender identity in adulthood."
"Unexpected Ethical Dilemmas in Sex Assignment in 46,XY DSD due to 5-alpha Reductase Type 2 Deficiency" [apparently what Imane Khelif & Caster Semenya have]: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5489130/
Medical Genetics: "However, reports that over half of patients who underwent a virilizing puberty adopted an adult male gender identity have challenged this practice. ...."
And my paraphrase of an article in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy on personal identity which might offer a useful analogy and point of reference:
SEP (paraphrased): Outside of philosophy, the term ‘[gender] identity’ commonly refers to [the sexually dimorphic personality and behavioural traits] to which we feel a special sense of attachment or ownership. My [gender] identity in this sense consists of those [masculine and feminine traits] I take to “define me as a person” or to “make me the person I am”.
Steers is an odd duck. I'm told he has been at this since the UseNet days. He regularly buys subscriptions to GC Substacks so he can propagate it. My advice is just mute him.
🙄 "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up", amirite?
You might have a bit more credibility, and be of more use to Genspect, if you could recognize that Genspect themselves apparently see some merit in the concept of gender identity instead of you thrashing a strawman:
Genspect: "females with ... CAH ... are typically raised as girls and continue in a female gender identity in adulthood."
🙄 If you had managed to get your head out the sand, or some other place where the sun don't shine, long enough to actually read my comment and follow the links then you might have noted that I had quoted and cited many reputable sources, including Genspect, that more or less endorse both the concepts of gender and, in particular, gender identity.
Excellent post. Yes in Canada where I live this is a serious social problem.
All I learned about Canada I learned from Turkish documentaries.
These might help ... 😉🙂
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_to_Americans
https://youtu.be/7ZE0TuKTpo4?si=PWw7pbHMvOF7jOLB
It’s terrible that well intending Liberals can’t see how Affirmative Care and Trans-medicalization is part of a global fascist uprising meant to end legitimate liberal causes like women’s rights, gay rights and even liberalism itself.
I recently made the sex realist case in the comment section of a left-of-center Substack account. Among other things, I said that liberals and progressives needed to stop demonizing and censoring sex realists.
It was no surprise that the five negative replies I received painted trans people as victims and sex realists as terrible people. The next time an opportunity I will quote this piece to show that trans activists and trans allies are not the angels they're said to be. (I also received five "likes.")
Here are the trans allies' comments.
Person 1
Nov 9
So many assumptions here that I disagree with. The far right will always choose a minority to demonize. It happens to be trans people at this moment because the majority of people now accept homosexuality. In the 1980s it was gay men. In 50 years it will be someone else. Transsexuals are not new. While European culture may have suppressed such tendencies, other cultures did not and even celebrated those with identities that mixed or crossed genders. Look at the mahu of Hawaii; families would celebrate if they had a mahu child and considered it a special blessing. In an ancient South Indian ritual around child birth, a young boy is dressed as a girl to confuse malevolent spirits and distract them from the pregnant woman and her quickening womb. I live in San Jose, CA. My teenage children taught me of this "no gender" concept and rejection of the gender binary and I kind of love it. It's fascinating to see them using language and dress to change their mental concept of the world. My ex went through gender reassignment surgery at the age of 48. My children have zero interest in doing so. At the end of the day being trans is about self expression. Shouldn't everyone have the right to be addressed the way they wish to be and to wear whatever clothes they choose? Many people do not get hormone treatment or surgery. For others, surgery gives them life and they would have committed suicide without the opportunity. They are such a tiny percent of the population. Why should we be afraid? Do we forbid nose jobs or breast enhancement for the purposes of vanity? What about botox treatment? People are literally poisoning themselves and that isn't frowned upon. The San Jose State University women's volleyball team has a trans woman. She didn't advertise that fact; someone outed her. Suddenly teams refused to play them and gave them victories they would not have gotten otherwise. She has given them a better "winning" percentage simply because other teams refuse to play them and not because she has given them a competitive advantage on the court. When young people are allowed to transition before puberty, trans women do not get the advantage of testosterone and are not inherently more muscular. Their mental health improves dramatically. I don't expect everyone to embrace the acceptance of trans people overnight. But how does it offend so strongly when we stand by them. No one is asking anyone else to change their gender. Asking that no one be abused seems like a low bar that shouldn't be objectionable to anyone. If society had been more accepting when we were children, my ex would have lived her authentic self and I would have had the opportunity to choose someone else.
Person 2
Nov 9
·edited Nov 9
The trans people are the first on the chopping block, but don't think for one minute that gays and lesbians aren't next. Trump may not care one way or another about gays, but never underestimate the christian nationalists that are in his orbit to attack us. They are just softening the ground. I'm sure they have a list of "deviants" they want to get rid of.
Person 3
Nov 9
What a shock, that your scapegoat for the election loss is the group of people who you already didn't like.
Person 4
Nov 9
·edited Nov 9
Like MaryAnn, I didn't entirely follow this, but the gist of it seemed to be it's trans people's activism that's the problem and that radical gender ideology is going to convince people they are trans just because they're tomboys or girly boys or whatever and lead to terrible consequences? Is that an accurate read? Are you friends with any trans or nonbinary people? Have you heard any of their stories? I don't know if what you're saying about some trans activists shutting down conversation about the complexities and need for caution in some situations is true or not, but even if it was true, there are always difficult people in any movement. The bigger picture is still that society is awful to people who are trans. Awful. And that this needs to change. They need rights and protections, and society needs to stop mocking them (Whether or not you agree with someone's person decision to transition). The friends I have who are trans have gut-wrenching stories of knowing this was who they were from a young age, praying and praying every day to wake up the gender they wanted to be, becoming suicidal, finally having the courage to much later in life to live as who they always knew they were, being rejected by their families and communities when they did so. Their workplaces as adults being targeted and threatened by transphobic people they didn't even know after they transitioned. Being publicly mocked in church services. It would have prevented much suffering if they'd felt safe to live that way earlier, but trans people are currently the minority group society feels most free to mock and insist aren't real. I have a friend whose child now identifies as trans. Again, no one "persuaded" him he was trans, it was something he talked about on his own. And when he shared this to friends, other kids came out to him - on their own - saying they were too scared to tell their parents anymore because their parents said kids can't feel that way, but they knew they were the same way. I emphasize again, this wasn't radical trans madness convincing these kids of anything. My friend has also talked about how much joy her kid has found now that he has affirming community who understands this is a normal queer experience. It's heartbreaking that it was so hard to find.
I know some people are still convinced gender dysphoria isn't actually something real and that maybe somehow we can change it with talk therapy or something. I don't know any trans people who believes this, so I honestly think we will one day see it the same way we've accepted that gay and lesbian orientations are real. Even if there was some truth to the argument that a trans experience could be cured (again, I'm not there just because I know no trans person who feels this way, and I trust them), it seems very clear to me that this is the bigger picture about the trans community - people who just want to be accepted and be who they've always known they are without society bullying them and driving them to suicide. When we go straight to "trans madness" as the "real" threat and insist once more that they really just need more therapy and their concerns aren't real, this really hurts them.
You also mentioned something about sex realists - again, I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that sex realists vs deniers is a common false framing of the issue. ContraPoints on Youtube (a trans woman) I believe had a helpful episode on this misframing in the context of her discussion of the JK Rowling controversy. Trans people know more than anyone that biological sex is real - if they didn't know sex was real, they wouldn't be seeking extensive medical treatment to align sex with their gender experience. I agree with you that the research is new and so it's all confusing and scary and we need to proceed with caution to never rush into anything when kids are involved. But I don't personally know any trans people who think we should be careless in that regard. Again, my sense is that those who've had the experience of a deep sense of gender/sex mismatch from a young age are those we should listen to the most about what would help them thrive and find acceptance.
Hope this makes sense - we likely won't agree, but I wanted to at least try to speak up for my trans friends and their experiences when it sounds like someone is saying their experience is madness. Peace.
Person 5
Nov 9
Ollie, I'm not sure I followed you, to be honest. My wish for you is that you would read a first-person account of a transgender person like "Getting to Ellie" by Ellen Krug. She is not a concept or philosophy, queer or otherwise. She is not a construct. She is a woman who transitioned in her 50's after a lifetime of knowing she was a woman. That takes courage and also an ability to put up with a lot of physical pain.
I think the notion that 'male intrusion' into women's spaces being a huge issue is much more of a construct than actual transgender people.
You strike me as a very good person. We best just agree to disagree, my sense.
Ollie Parks
Nov 9
·edited Nov 9
What people in their 50s do is their business. There was once a time - as recently as the late 20th century - when trans men were practically unknown and most trans people were like Ellie: men well past the first bloom of youth who saw themselves as women. That is worlds apart from today's trans madness.
Person 5, again.
Nov 9
It's not though. Ellie shouldn't have had to wait until her 50s to live as who she always knew she was. This kind of experience parallels those of my trans friends - who similarly didn't have the strength to come out until somewhat later in life but who suffered greatly because they knew they couldn't trust anyone with their experience because of how cruel society is to trans people. By "today's trans madness" I don't think you mean my friends, but that kind of language hurts them.
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I've tried many, many times to have conversations with my fellow Canadians about how gender ideology is hurting women and children. The vast majority have no idea any of this is going on, and the majority of that group are also not interested in learning more. It's not 'nice' to engage in those conversations, don't you know. The few that are aware are intent on keeping their noses down until it blows over.
Which is why I have such immense respect for the women in this doc. And so many more, like Melanie Bennet and Meghan Murphy.
My husband and I consider a Canadian gay couple who live in Vancouver our best friends. We've known them for over 30 years. Both are therapists who are very senior in the profession. One or both have had trans clients. They're not woo, but neither are they conservatives.
We are both sex realists, I very much more so than my husband. I am certain that they would both disagree strongly with our views about gender ideology and its social consequences. It is even possible they would conclude that our moral compass is broken. If we ever engaged them in a thorough discussion of the subject, it could end or relationship.
Be that as it may, the next time I am in BC, I plan to wear my rainbow flag t-shirt that has a void where the bruise-like trans triangle and racial identity stripes would ordinarily be. They wouldn't deport me, would they? : )
There should be class action suits brought against the companies that make puberty blockers and hormones, and the corrupt medical standards organizations that legitimized gender medicine malpractice. Then go after gender surgery practitioners.
Tranada.
For anyone else wanting a direct link :
https://youtu.be/k68gSaTAQeU?si=iodvD2GDWYhO3kcS
> "... the grassroots revolt against ‘gender identity’ ...."
Part of the problem is that there is some merit in the concept of "gender identity", even if many transactivists, and their useless/useful idiots, go off the deep end with it.
For example, Genspect and the author, Matt Osborne, may wish to take a gander at my several comments on Stella O'Malley's Substack on the topic:
Genspect: "females with ... CAH ... are typically raised as girls and continue in a female gender identity in adulthood."
https://stellaomalley.substack.com/p/i-hate-the-word-gender/comment/75556254
Article in the Journal of Medical Genetics:
"Unexpected Ethical Dilemmas in Sex Assignment in 46,XY DSD due to 5-alpha Reductase Type 2 Deficiency" [apparently what Imane Khelif & Caster Semenya have]: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5489130/
Medical Genetics: "However, reports that over half of patients who underwent a virilizing puberty adopted an adult male gender identity have challenged this practice. ...."
https://stellaomalley.substack.com/p/i-hate-the-word-gender/comment/76251561
And my paraphrase of an article in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy on personal identity which might offer a useful analogy and point of reference:
SEP (paraphrased): Outside of philosophy, the term ‘[gender] identity’ commonly refers to [the sexually dimorphic personality and behavioural traits] to which we feel a special sense of attachment or ownership. My [gender] identity in this sense consists of those [masculine and feminine traits] I take to “define me as a person” or to “make me the person I am”.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-personal/
https://stellaomalley.substack.com/p/i-hate-the-word-gender/comment/75638607
So, to defend your position, you cite yourself. How compelling.
Steers is an odd duck. I'm told he has been at this since the UseNet days. He regularly buys subscriptions to GC Substacks so he can propagate it. My advice is just mute him.
🙄 "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up", amirite?
You might have a bit more credibility, and be of more use to Genspect, if you could recognize that Genspect themselves apparently see some merit in the concept of gender identity instead of you thrashing a strawman:
Genspect: "females with ... CAH ... are typically raised as girls and continue in a female gender identity in adulthood."
https://stellaomalley.substack.com/p/i-hate-the-word-gender/comment/75556254
But maybe there's more profit in the latter? 🙄
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/21810-it-is-difficult-to-get-a-man-to-understand-something
🙄 If you had managed to get your head out the sand, or some other place where the sun don't shine, long enough to actually read my comment and follow the links then you might have noted that I had quoted and cited many reputable sources, including Genspect, that more or less endorse both the concepts of gender and, in particular, gender identity.