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for the kids's avatar

Hi,

Thank you for this!

I want to note that ROGD is not shown to only be girls.

You have ROGD defined as " that increasing rates of trans identification among teenage girls may be partly attributable to social contagion."

From what I see, Littman had 83% girls and 17% boys, and the rise in boys has been huge, as well, just not as huge as that of the girls.

In the GIDS plot, for instance, you can look at the number of boys in 2009 and in 2016, which went from 34 to 557, a huge jump in a few years. It's just that the girls rose higher and started lower. At this point the numbers are 1:2 or 1:3 or 1:4 boys to girls in the US, I believe, both girls and boys are very high. I am guessing the ratio depends on age, too. The ratio depends upon country, I think Finland has many more girls than boys. There are plots in the Cass Review systematic review on demographics: https://adc.bmj.com/content/109/Suppl_2/s3.long#F3

Some argue that there aren't ROGD boys, in particular, those who think that boys are either AGP or gay, but this is not established. Males who have desisted or detransitioned also note social media influence, comorbidities, being ASD, as influencing their belief that transition was what they needed. The ROGD hypotheses "briefly stated, are that psychosocial factors (such as trauma, mental health conditions, maladaptive coping mechanisms, internalized homophobia, and social influence) can cause or contribute to the development of gender dysphoria in some individuals (Littman, 2018)." from https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-021-02163-w This isn't restricted to girls, I don't think.

You can also check out the site rogdboys.org for a lot of detailed information.

Practically this is also important as there are some experts who claim that AGP treated by medical transition is beneficial (pointing to poor older studies, neglecting to note that follow up research for those is so bad it can't be trusted). The best studies show the worst outcomes for surgery ("The results were inconsistent, but negative in the best studies"), https://www.cms.gov/medicare-coverage-database/view/ncacal-decision-memo.aspx?proposed=Y&NCAId=282 .

Also, if you have two women in a relationship and one identifies as male, is that a gay relationship or a heterosexual relationship according to some? I thought both had to identify as male to be considered "gay" but I really don't understand this...

Thank you again!

Mariah Burton Nelson's avatar

Dear Genspect Team, Great start. It's an important project, and great article. In response to your request for feedback:

1) Please don't define gay without including women. The only reason the "L" was added to the Gay Rights Movement was because lesbians were feeling too invisible given the male domination of the movement, and because people associate the word gay with men. We lesbians did not dissociate ourselves from the term. Ask almost any lesbian if she is gay (not if she loves the word or identifies with it, but just if she is), and she'll say yes, of course. It's an umbrella term.

2) I think you're underplaying the non-binary, queer, genderfluid, etc phenomenon, both in the article and in the non-binary definition. In a 2023 Washington Post survey, a whopping "62 percent majority of trans adults identify as 'trans, gender non-conforming' or 'trans, nonbinary."

The frequent references to "males who identify as women" or whatever give the impression that you're still thinking the way transsexuals of yore used to think. It's a whole other world out there now, as you know, with many self-definitions that muddy or reject or shift within and beyond concepts of male and female altogether. I'm not advocating for it, just describing it. My sense is that they mean androgynous, but they use language like "neither male nor female, or both, or transmac, or demiboy, or depends on the day...." Given the upsurge in mastectomies, especially, and the frequent use of the non-binary term, I think the question, What does non-binary actually mean? deserves more than a simple answer.

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